>> that's 5 p.m. on friday, the 21st, and with that, the meet meeting's adjourned.

>> subcommittee on oversight will come to order. in front of you are pacts containing the written testimony, biography, and truth and testimony disclosures of today's witness panel. i'll reck nieces myself for five minutes for an opening statement. good morning and welcome. this hearing titled "operating unmanned aircraft systems in the national air space system: assessing research and development efforts to ensure safety" is a first hearing for the 113th congress' subcommittee

on oversight. during our break, our name changed, but our general and special investty -- investigative to study all laws and government activities are involving nonmilitary research and development remaining the same. i'd like to extend a warm welcome to the witnesses today, really appreciate you guys being here. also, i want to welcome our returning members and our new members including the subcommittees' ranking member and distinguished gentleman from new york new york. i look forward to working with you all and the ranking member on this committee. today's hearing focusing on intergrating unmanned aircraft systems or uas, into the national air space. as a pilot, i'm extremely interested in this issue.

specifically, we hope to gain a better understanding of the risk, the technology obstacles, and key research and development efforts being undertaken to overcome the obstacles. uas has garnered a great deal of attention lately. in fact, if you watched the news this morning, there's a lot of -- lot of news about this issue. in january, pbs's "nov a" had a documentary called "rise of the drones," and last week's "time" magazine cover carried the same title, and, of course, the administration's use of drones for targeting terrorists to con cronet our war on terrorism has come to be a central issue in the confirmation hearing of the proposed cia directer, the nominee, john brennan. however, privacy issues and

military applications of uas beyond the scope of this hearing. i use the term "unmanned aircraft systems" or usa instead of uas or drones because it is a more complete term. uas are complex systems made up of not just aircraft, but as well as supporting ground, air, and communications infrastructure. uas comes in a variety of shapes and sizes and carries out a wide range of missions. aviation has come a long way in a relatively short period of time thanks to american innovation and i think newty. the list of pioneers in aviation and aerospace is very long. you may not know the details of the achievement, but i'm shore you know names like cesna, james

mcdonald and donald douglas, howard hughes, william boeing, charles limbburg, kelly johnson just to name a few. the next steps in modern aviation began with two american brothers in 190 # -- 1903. they will likely transform civilian and commercial sectors. the group in the industry and market firm predicts that they spend over $49 billion on uas over the next decade. in 2010, the association for unmanned vehicle systems international estimated that over the next 15 years, more than 23,000uas jobs totaling 1.6 billion in wages could very well be created.

this does not include the tens of thousands of secondary jobs in sector manufacturing, software development, and other compliment ri industries. that said, the addition of thousands of tens of thousands of additional aircraft into the national air space certainly poses safety concerns. there's no guarantee that accidents will not occur, but we need to take every precaution to reduce the risk involved in the uas integration. last year, congress directed the federal agencies including the faa and nasa collaborating in accelerating the integration of uas into the national air space. the faa modernization and reform act of 2012 contains provisions designed to promote and facilitate the use of civilian unmanned aircraft. we, on the subcommittee, know that you've been working hard and have made progress towards

meeting the prescribed objectives, but we also know that there are many unresolved issues, both technologically and regulatorily. again, i go to the goal today to have the research to overcome technology issues and mitigate risk involved with uas integration into the national air space system. we're particularly interested in hearing about any advances towards eliminating as a as a vulnerabilities. the agreements on technological standards and the "washington post" reported nine american uas crashes occurred near civilian airports overseas as a result of pilot ere -- error. there's poor coordination with air traffic controllers. in august 2010, the "new york

times" reported that a navy uas violated air space over washington, d.c. when the operators lost control due to a software issue. while this may be more acceptable in remote areas overseas, we need to do much better here in our own skies. the threat of the jamming, gp -- gps navigational hacking has to be addressed before any integration into the national air space. overcoming the challenges will require significant research investments by both the public and private sector. given the nation's current financial state, this demands more efficient coordination between all stake holders. i recognize ranking member, the gentleman from new york, mr.--

[inaudible] for an opening statement. you are recognized, sir, for five minutes. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman. i'm excited about the opportunity to work with you on this important subcommittee. i particularly want to compliment you for leadership in calling the hearing today. i hope it won't surprise you that on this issue i will be echoing a lot of the comments and i thought your opening statement articulate. addressing the research and development efforts regarding integration of unmanned aircraft systems or uas is a serious issue and presents challenges and possible economic opportunity, and also potential threats to liberties and safety. i know firsthand what a complicated issue it is and the challenge it presents, unmanned unit operates out of my district in hancock field. while that are commonly referred to as drones, it goes beyond what that word implies.

there is a real human element to unmanned flight of this kind just as there's an increasingly robotic demand in flight. there's integrating usa into the national air space, and my constituents express concerns on a daily basis. these aircraft represent technologies with broad uses among many industries and government agencies. they could provide benefits from the farmers, firefighters, search and rescue, researchers, meteorologists, and scientists. regardless of the specific use, we have to ensure that unmanned systems operate in the national air space safely and securely, but, first, they must overcome the technical challenges that exist, and, indeed, there are many. a 2012gao report have areas to be addressed before they can fly safely in the skies. chief among them is the stark reality that the technology to provide unmanned aircraft the ability to, quote, avoid other

aircraft and airborne objects does not currently exist. that's a serious concern. other challenges range from lost link scenarios, communication severedded as a result of environmental or technology factors. requiring radio spectrum to secure the communication for uas operations, particularly as the spectrum needs censors to expand is another challenge. i look forward to the witnesses addressing challenges in depth today. there's a real and critical human element of unmanned flight of any kind, highly skilled pilots who sat in the cockpits sit in ground stations detached from the sennation of flight and g forces while being connected to the outcome of the mission. we need to ensure these human elements from proper training and certifications are appropriately incorporated into the uas integration as well. a year ago, the faa

modernization reform act of 2012 was signed into law. it required the faa to establish an integration plan permitting unmanned systems to operate in the united states by september of 2015. i look forward to hearing from the faa today on their progress in the last year as well as a realistic report op what challenges remain and where the faa stands in meeting the deadlines. now, 20 years ago, cell phone technology was in the infancy, and within ten years, they transformed from mobile phones to the pocket accessory uses to help small businesses and owners extanned. while security and safety concerns about the use and growth of the devices, they have cameras on them now, existed since the beginning. the proliferation and advancements have not slowed. today, there are more than 315 million cell phones in the united states alone, and most of the devices carry cameras and gps or global positions satellite capabilities as well. while the advances are not restricted, there's limit on the

cell phones. this should be an analogy to us. despite all of the recognized challenges with uas, whether we we like it or not, for better or for worse, the technology is here and not going away. the public sec a -- sector and commercial sector is interested in the technology. as a result, we must develop the necessary frame work to handle uas safely and securely and ensure the protection of individual rights and personal privacy in the air and on the ground. like any new technology, it is impossible to predict the path uas will take. a tremendous task of ensuring the safe and secure operation and integration of uas into the air space, we are presented with a challenge of balancing all of the important issues. there's private sector issues, which might help grow the economy. the government's interest is to provide domestic security, and,

we, as representatives are charged with safeguarding the public's interest and protecting civil liberties. developing and effective regulatory frame work could be the process, but this hearing is one step towards ensuring this is happening in a timely and effective manner. it is our responsibility, and we don't take it lightly, to ensure the need for oversight and have proper procedures created and federal agencies meet the timelines to address the rapid emergence of the uas systems in our national air space. that's why, i again, compliment the chairman. thank you for the leadership in calling the hearing today. i want to thank the witnesses, and i look forward to your testimony. thank you very much, mr. chairman. >> mr. maffet, thank you so much. i look forward to working with you as we go forward in the congress, and from your statements, i can tell you and i will be close colleagues protecting civil liberties and privacy issues because those issues are extremely pont to me

and -- important to me and have been for a long time since i've been here and before i came here. i want to introduce the witnesses. first is dr. carlin toner, director of joint planning development, opposite the federal aviation administration. next witness is dr. edgar wagner, director of the integrated systems research program office at nasa, and the time witness today is dr. gerald dillingham at the government accountability office, gao. as the witnesses should know, spoken testimony's limited to five minutes each after which the members of the committee have five minutes each to ask questions. now -- i now recognize dr. toner to present her testimony. >> thank you, mr. chairman.

good morning, chairman broun, congressman maffe, and members of the subcommittee. i appreciate the opportunity to appear before you today to discuss the federal aviation administration's current research in support of unmanned aircraft systems integration into our national air space system. i'm the director of the joint planning and develop office and touches upon the role the office plays in faa till at a timing and coordinating -- facilitating and coordinating research efforts within the department of commerce, defense, and homeland security, nasa, and the faa. i'd also like to take this opportunity to speak to you about the so listation that the faa announced yesterday requesting interested state and local governments, eligible universities, and other public entities to develop six uas research and test sites around the country. this solicitation was done in accordance with the faa

modernization and reform act of 2012 which directed the faa to establish the test sites in order to conduct the critical research that will help determine how best to safely integrate these systems into ours now. once the tests are conducted, later this year, we expect to learn how uas operate in different environments and how they impact air traffic operations. the test sites also inform the agency as we develop standards for certifying unmanned aircraft and determine the necessary air traffic requirements. in addition to the test sites, faa is publishing a notice in the federal register asking the public to review draft privacy language and provide input. the broad outline of faa's privacy proposal will require each test site to ensure their privacy policies address the following: notice or awareness,

choice and consent, access and participation, integrity and security, and, finally, enforcement mechanisms to deal with violations of these policies. the faa thinks the test sites will provide important information that will inform our integration process moving forward. with respect to faa east research and development efforts, we are working in four areas, void, control and communication, maintenance and repair, and human factors. research in all four areas are critical as the opening statements mentioned. my written statement contains more details on each area, but i'd like to take a moment to highlight the work rewith doing with nasa in the area of control and communication. the faa is collaborating with nasa on prototype architecture that will be used to develop a high level security risk

assessment. our joint work will define the network architecture and candidate security mechanisms for protecting the air ground communications that can eventually be used to develop security standards and requirements. likewise, all of our partner agencies have mission related incentives for uas integration to succeed. the jpo enables leveraging research done by different agencies to ensure all agencies are aware of and can benefit from the work being done throughout the administration. this synergy such as the faa nasa partnership i described ensures that all research dollars are used as effectively as possible to reach the common role of safe uas integration. i certainly understand the desire to safely integrate uas into the now. because the mission is to ensure the safety and efficiency, integration occurs to the extent faa is satisfied that the safety

will not be degraded by the introduction of the new aircraft. this is an extremely complex endeavor, but faa has been challenged with problems in the past. the aviation safety record is a testament to the fact that we have been able to meet those challenges. mr. chairman, this includes my statement, and i'll be happy to answer your questions. >> thank you, dr. toner, and i appreciate you're staying within five minutes. that was perfect. thank you so much. excellent. now i recognize dr. wagner for five minutes. >> chairman broun, ranking member maffet, members of the subcommittee, i thank you for the opportunity to testify on the research and development for integration. there's a growing demand to routinely fly unmanned aircraft, and i'm sure you're aware that unmanned aircraft are increasingly being used for applications where it's not

feasible or practical to replay on extended human piloted flight. we often refer to these as the dull, dangerous, or dirty missions. the application of unmanned aircraft to perform the missions is just part of what's driving the critical need for less restrictive access. safe routine access remits enhanced capabilities, but also the promise of new capabilities for commercial or civil aviation sectors as well. nasa's performing research in the aeronautics research directer to provide opportunity to develop our con cements, technologies, ailing rivet ms to the faa -- algorithms to define safe routine access. my testimony this morning, i want to make three key points. i'll define research done to solve the problem, how we are working to transition research results to the stake holder community, and looking towards

the future, what nasa considers additional research to be required. one might ask why aren't uas allowed now? for unmanned aircraft, access is hampered by regulatory and operational challenges making it difficult to establish common, applicable standards and requirements. now, the faa established a process for enabling public agencies to request a certificate of authorization or waiver in order to operate unmanned aircraft. as a matter of fact, this is how nasa receives permission to perform science missions. however, for civil, non-public uas operations, the faa requires a special airworthiness certificate in the experimental category which are limited to an individual vehicle rather than a class of vehicles, and severely limits the uses of the uas. for example, commercial operations are specifically

excluded under an experimental certificate. the majority of the research work nasa's performing is organized under the integration and the project, and it's focused in the following areas. sensitive void, separation ainsurance interoperatability, developing reliable communication systems and protocols, ground control systems for effective and safe operation, and the requirements necessary to define cry criterir avionic communication systems and ground control system certification. we are addressing critical research questions and delivers results to the stake holders. now, the work that that that nasa's performing is delivering stake holder interfaces as well. i'd like to identify three key interfaces where we are significantly involved. the uas executive committee or the uas excom, joint planning and development office, the jpo, and uas aviation rule making

community, the uasr. in each of the cases, nasa supports activities from the executive level down to the working level subject matter experts. in addition to this, there's effective partnerships with the faa, the department of defense, and rtca special committee 203 focused on unmanned aircraft systems. finally, i'd like to identify some future research areas where nasa is undertaking studies to evaluate the implications of safe integration of uas into the next generation air transportation systems, commonly referred to as nextgen. understanding the remote tradeoffs between remote control and computerized automation of unmanned aircraft referred to as levels of atomomy could generate areas of focus. i want to point out that of airborne space and void. sensitive void are particularly

relevant when the aircraft involvedded are not under positive air traffic control. we know about the work that the dod is performed. we'd like to assess that relative to civil applications. in conclusion, i'd like to leave you with this thought. granted nasa does not build unmanned aircraft nor develop policy or the regulatory frame work for the operation, but, however, through our research, we conduct, in cooperation with government agencies and industry and academia, nasa addresses barrier technology challenges for safe uas integration and ensuring our research is effectively coordinated with and transitioned to the uas stake holder community. chairman broun, ranking member, other members of the subcommittee, this concludes my prepared statement, and i'll be pleased to answer any questions at this time. >> thank you, appreciate it very much. excellent testimony from both you guys, and i'm sure you'll

give an equally excellent testimony. sir, you are recognized for five minutes. >> do what we can, mr. chairman. ranking member, members of the subcommittee, as you requested, my testimony addresses three areas related to integrating uas into the national aircraft system. first, the roles, responsibility, and coordination among key stake holders, and, second, progress in complying with the requirements in the reauthorization act, and, third, faa and others to address key integration challenges. with regards to the first area of stake holders role and speedometer and coordination, congress' tarvegged faa to integrate them into the national air space system, and successful integration requires involvement of several other agencies including dod, dhs, and nasa as well as industry stake holders they have taken steps to

facilitate collaboration among the stake holders. for example, they developed working groups, memorandums of understanding, cooperative research agreements to address a range of integration issues. faa's also recently created the uas integration office with one executive to coordinate uas efforts across the faa. although we did not evaluate the effectiveness of the efforts, our work on other federal and industry collaborations such as the implementation of the next generation air transportation system shows early yen continuous involvement of stake holders is critical to project's success. with regard to the implementation status of the faa reauthorization provision, our written statement contains a chart of selected requirements and the status of faa's efforts to meet them. most of the requirements must be achieved between may 2012 and december 2015. our work shows that while faa has efforts underway to meet the

requirements, they have completed only two of the nine requirements with completion deadlines that have passed as of this morning. of the deadlines missed, faa has not established a program for the six test sites or released the comprehensive plan. stake holders, including the congress, consider these actions among the key gateways to moving closer to safe and efficient uas integration. while there could be argues that the provisions are complex undertaking, meeting established deadlines can increase stake holder confidence in faa's ability to lead the uas efforts and contribute to the continued participation and collaboration among all stake holders. regarding research and development efforts, faa's uas road map identifies various obstacles to prevent uas from

being allowed to operate safely and routinely. this includes as a -- as a-- vulnerabilities, spoofing, and human factors. while progress is made to address the obstacles, the lack of necessary data has hampered the dwoments of safety -- development of safety, reliability, and performance standards needed to validate the research and development efforts. in addition to the technical obstacles cited, government and industry will need to work together to address issues related to the public acceptance of uas, especially as it relates to privacy and homeland security concerns. mr. chairman, ranking member maffet, and members of the subcommittee, the potential impact of the industrial sector on the nation's aerospace industry and overall global competitiveness could be significant. as the chairman noted, in

addition to the life protection and life saving potential, according to an industry forecast, over the next decade, the worldwide market for government and commercial use of uas could grow to be worth $89 billion. the united states could account for nearly two-thirds of the $28 billion for the projected investment for uas technologies. while this growth, it's critical for faa to make progress into the national air space system, and hearings like this highlight the importance of issues that need to be addressed. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you, you did an excellent job also, and we appreciate y'all being here, excellent testimony, and, hopefully the questions brought up at gao will be answered not only through this hearing, but through written questions i'll

ask you as you go along. limiting questions to five minutes each, the chair opens it, and the chair recognizes himself for five minutes. the u.s. lost sental near iran, and iranians claimed to spoof the gps signal that was in operation with that. last summer, professor humphries from the university of texas, austin said it is possible to spoof the systems to take control of the unmanned aircraft. the testimony states that military gps signals unlike the nonmilitary gps signals, unlike the military gps signals are not

encrypted in transparency and predictability make them easily counterfeited or spoofed. ask what research and development is being conducted to address this concern and are there any research and development gaps that you're aware of? dr. toner, if you could start off, and dr. wagner, if you could fill in any gaps that dr. toner leaves out. >> thank you, mr. chairman. you mentioned the very careful experimentation mentioned by the students in texas, and we're aware of those, and, believe me, the security of the communication and control system is one of the key challenges we've looked at for uas, and i mentioned in the testimony projects we're working there. what i want to point out about the experiment, and i believe in his papers he points out that

they were very carefully conducted and would be hard to repeat. that said, we have to be cognizant. the faa initiating a group looking at spoofing and jamming. there's position navigation looking across the government at gps systems and would be concerned in that area. we are working on moment. levels to address it. >> dr. wagner. >> yes, sir. we're aware of the work they did at the university of texas. just to frame this problem, the issues with gps is far bigger than just uas. this would have economic implications. our economy is actually run on gps now. we're aware of this. we're, certainly, in our work, working to make sure there's adequate redundancies in any systems that we would test so that its positions not only

relies on the gps signal, and in other situation awareness issues associated with that as well. our focus is on security of the command and control signal of the vehicle making sure within the frequencies we operate in that those are secure and the data that we're transmitting is reliable and is valid data. we have a robust research effort as far as that. spoofing the signal, we're aware of it. we're cognizant of what they did, and it's part of the knowledge base in the constraints we operate under, but we don't have any particular research efforts going towards spoofing of the gps signal. >> certainly, this is of great concern to americans, not only because of the safety, just generally, but also because of

if the professor and students can spoof the gps system, what could other nation states or terrorist groups do also? with federal and commercial uas operating in the national air space using cryptic command, control, and knave -- navigation links, dr. toner? >> the military today uses encrypted links, and i believe that that solution may not be as viable for the commercial market. that is the reason so much research is being done today. >> okay. dr. wagner, do you have any additions? >> no, sir, no additions. >> our time is about out, so, please, answer this question.

in 2010, the navy lost control of a fire scout uas which eventually violated the air space here in washington, d.c.. what work is being done to address the challenge of ensuring the safety and event of the a lost link? anyone? >> so the work we're doing there's certain lost link protocols that would come into play so that that is where aton atonomy takes over if there's a lot of command and control link at the uas. the uas goes to a predetermined position to reestablish the link or return to base. >> with respect there protocols in place for this particular incident, though, and we still had a problem; is that correct? >> that is correct in that case. >> okay. hopefully we can that that taken care of so it doesn't occur anymore. i'm sure it causes consternation here in washington, d.c.. my time's up.

>> mr. chairman, thank you. i found your questions and answers very enlight ping. -- enlightening. clearly, there's national and homeland security elements to this. on 9/11, it was not military airplanes taken over, but civilian airliners, and the same thing -- the biggest threat on these may not be of military cast taken over in the middle east, but maybe a civilian one overtaken here. we want to look at those things. dr. toner, you said the faa will not integrate uas until we are assured of the safety and the national air space will not be degraded in all respects, and dr. wagner echoed that, but begin the fact, dr. toner, that we've a very aggressive time line set out for you and the faa missed many of the deadlines, do you believe that you will be able to safely and effectively integrate the uas into the national air space by the current deadline of september 2015, and if you're not sure you can, are there things that you

need from us in congress to help make that happen or expedite it? >> our approach is a phased approach, and we're very cognizant that the faa act of 2012 called for safe integration by 2015. we view that as a beginning. if you look at aircraft such as the f-22 today, it is not fully integrated -- it is a manned aircraft, but it is not fully integrated into the air traffic control system. we take a phased-in approach. in 2015, we'll have, you know, integration beginning, but as we move towards the next generation system, there's new capabilities that make this an even more first time integ -- efficient integration for a variety of aircraft. the important thing is to see it as a rolling approach as we focus on the safe integration and safe interaction of unmanned

aircraft. >> what do you need from us? nothing? >> you know, the congress has given us a lot of attention and a lot of support. we would ask the opportunity to continue to explain the difficulties and challenges and our progress as we're rolling this out. >> okay, thank you very much. >> the chairman and i both expressed concerns about privacy and civil liberties related to the equipment on board of the uas aircraft surveillance sensors, ect., and then i think there's -- well, let me ask you this. who is responsible for regulating these issues such as privacy concerns? dr. dillingham do you, do you hn idea? everybody can answer if they have opinions. >> we looked into this, and at best, we can say it's up known at this point. when we did our work, we asked

faa about it, and faa said, our area is safety, and that's what we're going to focus on, and, of course, they are already existing a number of different privacy regulations and laws, but none of them have been tested with regards to uas. i think this -- the recent sir fap put out by faa to seek comments op privacy issues will be a start on that, and from our perspectives, that's one of the big obstacles from integration, that is public acceptance, public concerns, and concern about how the data will be used. >> if you want to address the issue because it seems there's no agency that's working on education or the public, ect.. >> not so much an agency, but the industry associations, some of the model airplane

associations are trying to educate the public or inform the public. i think one of the things that we keep in mind is no matter what kind of technology is out there for good, there's some that fibbed a way to misuse the technology. it's important that the public recognize, you know, those issues as well. >> anything to add from the other two witnesses? i have one more question, so, quickly. >> yes, sir. just real quickly, while i'm not an attorney or legal expert on this, we go it a lot of forums where this subject is discussed, and sort of the consensus opinion that i've drawn from this is that, yes, privacy is not the faa's responsibility. they are focused on safety. there are legal precedents that are set relative to technology and surveillance if these exist. the legislators and community

really need to identify what the ethical issues are and how these differ from a uas to a mannedded aircraft relative to flight operations. this issue that dr. dillingham mentioned, public and the media, really need to be educated about uas operations. >> dr. toner, do you have anything to add? you don't have to. okay. thank you very much, and, mr. chairman, you and i may have to roll up our sleeves and do a little of bipartisan work to set a legislative beginning to itment i don't -- it. i don't know, but i'd like to look into it with you. dr. toner, i appreciate the first formal step in selecting the first test sites yesterday releasing the screening requests, documents to the public. while i realize this may not be your exact area, nonetheless, can i -- i may have some additional questions on it once

we sort of review it in terms of trying to get more precision on what you're really looking for, and if you have a chance, get your commitment to receive a timely written response to that? >> we'll provide a timely response, sir. >> thank you very much, dr. toner. mr. chairman? >> all the members will have the opportunity to give written questions to the witnesses and hopefully we talked with them about that, and they are all willing to give us those expeditious answers to the questions because i know all of us have questions and all of us have concerns about this, and the american public is just frightened, frankly, about the use of the uas to possibly have invasions of their privacy, invasions of civil rights, and i'm extremely interested in ensuring the privacy issues and civil rights issues.

it's something i focused on for a long period of time, not just this issue, but through cyber security and everything else. i'm eager to work with you on the issue. >> me too, and, certainly, mr. chairman, you'll agree we have it at least figure out who the go-to person is in the administration so that, you know, we have -- doesn't fall through the cracks, and that's what i hope to work on. >> absolutely, no matter who is in the white house and whatever the administration is that this is an extremely important issue, and it's constitutional issue for me. mr. kramer, you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman, thank you to all the witnesses. you have done an excellent job efficiently and thoroughly answering the questions in the charters, so i appreciate that very much. i special appreciate the opportunity to meet you before the hearing, and, dr. toner, to have somebody who's spent new year's eve in north dakota as a witness in my first hears is

pretiewtous for me. as you know, in north dakota, we were pleased when the report was released. a long wait, but nonetheless, grateful for the opportunity to be one of the 26 states that applied for the designation. i would say given that you spent new new year's eve in north dakota at one point, you understand how extreme the climate can be, and i hope you take that into account if you choose us to test in extreme weather. in the summer time, the other extreme is the same. i would be interested in just exploring a little further this juxtaposition of the privacy issue with the safety issue because as i understand it, while the fir -- is it a 6 # 0 -- 60-day window for public comment on the privacy question, am i correct on that, dr. toner, do you know? >> yes, that is correct. >> so, thank you. does that have anything toot,

then -- anything to do, then, with the designation of the test sites? in other words, part of the sar, but not part of the country tier ya to be considered? >> we're looking to expand -- to get public input on that criteria. we will be evaluating the test site proposals as called for in the s arks r and -- sir and looking to make sure the offers do a good job in meeting criteria. >> getting back to the earlier criteria, i guess, in the opening statement about the collaboration or coordination and cooperation of various institutions, that would certainly, i think, fit into some of that? >> you know, i can't comment on the collaboration in terms of the proposals themselves. however, you know, from my office perspective, we need everybody sort of all rowing in the same direction on this issue since it's so complex. >> sure. with that, the point of the question is probably to make the statement given that you've

answered all the technical questions so well. again, going back to the criteria, we are, in north dakota, again, speaking for my constituents very interested in the topic because we're a big aviation state. as you know, we have the school of aerospace sciences, and dr. wagner at the university of north dakota and the aviation school that's very much a part of a team that the governor's put together called the air space integration team, a state effort to do exactly as unified institution under one collaborative effort to try to get the designation. in that, we think is second probably to the extreme weather in terms of criteria. i have a question, though, about proximity to canada. is that a -- would you consider that a concern or an asset being a border state. what collaborations do we have, if any, with the canadian government if -- as we test the

national air space, realizing we deal with international air space. >> we laid out in terms of the test sites what we believe are a wide range of criteria that we hope attracts a wide variety of overs -- offers including north dakota. i could not comment today on the interaction with canada and any international applications, but i can get back to you if needed. >> if you could, that would be great. mr. chairman, again, they've done such a great job answering the questions that i had earlier, i'll yield back. >> thank you. they just called votes. we have time. we'll try to get through as many questions as we can. mr. peters, you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman, and thank you for the opportunity to serve with you and be on the committee. i look forward to it. i 4 a simple question about spectrum. san diego supports 7100 jobs in the uas industry, and we're

interested in seeing the vehicles being able to be used for monitoring and research. there's great application there. in addition, we're also the home to qualcom, the wireless industry, our largest private employer. my question is about the bulk of spectrum resources requiredded from the use of the aircraft and whether any of you reviewed what the spectrum will be for the unmanned systems operating in the united states, five, ten, 15 years down the road. >> the faa has worked with the fcc to reserve some spectrum for the command and control of the vehicles, and we could get you the specifics on that. we believe with the assessment for the market of operation today that that should be adequate, but this is a point we will be studying to ensure that as well. >> i think that's fair, and i appreciate in addition to looking at the privacy concerns

raised by the previous gentlemen who spoke previously. i would appreciate an update that as we go along. mr. chairman, i appreciate the opportunity, and i yield back. >> thank you, mr. peters. he said he's not interested in asking questions -- oh, one question. >> i apologize for being late. we rolled voted from yesterday in the financial services committee, and i had to do that first. >> thank you for being here. you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. when you're from arizona, and, you know, we have a number of manufacturers producing products from those things there, i'm going -- i have a couple different questions, first one, particularly for the faa, sort of the research and development road map and the deadlines from the mechanics that my understanding are supposed to be built in there. where are we time wise? what are sure expectations of

deliverabilities? what do we expect to see in the next year or two out of that? >> thank you. that's a great question, and i'll probably run out of time to explain the answer. >> well, within -- >> yes, sir. i'm assuming you're talking about the uas research development demonstration road map that we published about a year ago, and at that time, we said that the challenges we had identified were a good start, a snapshot in time, and we'd need additional vetting and assurance that we'd meet the needs of the regulatory folks with the research program. during the past year, we've -- my folks worked tirelessly along with the government partners, and we are -- i think, very close to the coordination of a set of national goals and objectives of getting a single point of view or ops to use as a

measuring stick for our progress. we set up a frame work for how we can prioritize the research and development challenges. we have many of them. we want to cover them all, and, quite frankly, we are looking forward to the point where we can share that with the full community. >> mr. chairman, doctor, as you go through the sort of challenges, are you going to be publishing updates, saying, look, this is what we see, here's the latest status, and i know that's always hard around here. one of the things we have great frustration with is the number of missed deadlines. i think you had one -- what was it, september, that we missed? >> yes. in the road map report, we did push ourselves a little bit and promise some september data. >> would we see incremental updates and incremental publications telling us where you are at? >> we have -- we have not released incremental publications because it's important to the five agencies

that we have been working in partnership. it's important to us to get agreement with those agencies, and we have done the coordination. we're in the last step of coordination, and then we can release a comprehensive package. >> all right. my friend from civil aviation. >> is that me? >> yeah. >> i just wanted to add to dr. toner's comments that we did a report a couple of years ago, and we made a recommendation that when the comprehensive plan is developed, that it also include the ability to show progress, to monitor progress towards goals, and we are -- we have not seen that comprehensive plan yet. it's -- it has delayed as well. if our recommendation is adhered to, the kinds of things you are interested in in asking for should be included. >> okay. doctor, a slight lark, but it

sort of ties in. being from arizona, and i actually have this gentleman as a constituent who is a high end engineer, a lot of resources, built himself a nine-foot size flying wing with constant uplink and i appreciate him when he flies over my house and sends me a text message with photos of my house and what i do in my backyard. what are we seeing from the hobbyist world? are they running ahead of us? are they headed towards a dangerous conflict? what's going on there, and are we about to see, also, some clash of cultures of people going off on their own? >> this is a very sensitive and difficult area, but let me try and respond. the 2012 reauthorization act actually prohibited faa from making regulations related to

model aircraft, persons who operate model aircraft. there are existing regulations that suggest that if you operated in accordance with the principles that are there now, that that would be okay, but -- and there's a way for faa to intervene if you operate dangerously. the model aircraft association has issued some guidelines, though voluntary, that they -- that their membership, which i think is over 150,000, adhere to, but it's a different world in terms of modeling it, and, you know, how they will come together is to be determined. >> i know i'm beyond time, but, mr. chairman, what we agree up of thinking of a model airplane, these things ain't model airplanes. they are stunning in scale and complexity. thank you, mr. chairman. >> absolutely. the american public are very fearful, concerned, and that's the reason that the news media's

been focusing on the issue so long, and i appreciate dr. dillingham. i was not trying to ignore you or any of the members. i trust you guys will continue to monitor and report back to us on an ongoing basis what you find, and, please, keep us informed. also, dr. wagner, if you would, please provide for the record all of nasa's uas research and development projects as well as funding levels for the projects. the faa was kind enough to provide those for us, but we have not got the records from nasa. if you would, please provide for those, that information to us in an expeditious manner. i thank all the witnesses for y'all's excellent testimony today. it's not animal interesting -- only interesting, but extremely valuable for us. members of the committee may have additional questions as i talked to y'all in private.

we ask for you to respond to those very expeditiously in writing to us. the record will be open for two additional weeks for additional -- two weeks for additional comments, and for written questions for members. i thank you y'all. i'm disappointed we have a vote on that's going to interrupt this extremely interesting topic for me and for the members of the committee, for americans all over the country, and i thank c-span for coming in and helping to broadcast this to the american public so that we can get that information out. y'all's have valuable testimony. thank you very much for being here. the witnesses are excused, and the hears is now adjourn -- the hearing is now adjourned. [inaudible conversations]

>> next on c-span2, a hearing on spending by the department of homeland security followed by former senator and motion picture association of america president chris dodd. later, another look at unmanned aeriel drones. >> i think the women themselves in many cases were interested in

politics but had no vehicle to express that in their own lives, so they were attracted to men who were going to become politically active or were already politicalty active. >> each of them i find intriguing, probably half of them in particular, they are precisely because they are so obscure historicalliment i think half the women probably would be almost totally unrecognizable to most men and women on the street. >> this president's day, c-span premiers the new series, "first ladies: influence and image" from the historic house in washington, d.c. with historians, chiefs of staffs, chefs and curators exploring the lives of those who served as first lady from martha washington tomy shoal obama in the first of its kind project for television. it begins monday night at 9 eastern and pacific on c-span,

c-span radio, and c-span.org and watch the program live at 2 # p.m. eastern on c-span. >> next, a hearing on the budget operations and future of the department of homeland security. witnesses include former virginia governor james gilmore, government accountability office, and the congressional research service. this is just over an hour and a half. ..

under an border patrol age and brand terry who was killed in december 2010 in the line of duty in arizona. i look forward to a strong bipartisan separation to make the homeland security at the nation and effective as possible. i would also like to introduce our new freshman majority members. today we've got mr. keith rothfuss from pennsylvania and mr. hudson of north carolina and later will be mr. stephen daines of montana. they bring experience to new roles in congress and on the subcommittee and i look forward to leveraging derricks vincennes knowledge to provide effective oversight of dhs. honeypots are just a night to

think the subcommittee that whoever diligently to put this hearing together in preparing the members of the committee appears to thank you for that. i do recognize that both were in update statement. >> next month marks 10 years since the creation of the dhs or homeland security act of 2002. air force is to fundamentally rethink about their nation faces to defending the homeland. as the 9/11 commission report documents before 9/11 the executive department had its first priority of the job of defending america from domestic attack. that change with the creation of the homeland security. dhs has established to prevent terrorist attacks within the united states, reduce america's vulnerability to terrorism and three, help america recover from any attacks that may occur. dhs however has faced a massive

challenge of creating a new organization by integrating 22 federal agencies and component into unified department. it's important to remember the gravity of the issues dh-based and hondas experiences affect the current responsibilities to protect critical infrastructure, countermeasures against chemical, biological, radiological and nuclear threats , secure borders and transportation systems and manage the response to terrorist attacks and major disasters. today we seek to assess how dhs sending taxpayer dollars. husband of funding mandate by the homeland security act of 2002. we know there have been 50 parts have been attempted terrorist attacks on the u.s. that have been ported@11. however, incident the attack on fort hood that killed 13 americans are for the 2000 christmas day, or in the 2010

attempted a car bombing in times square remind us to remain ever vigilant. but our full terrorist attacks a good measure of dhs success were at their american people should use to evaluate dhs quakes today many americans question how dhs uses resources entrusted to it. in 2004 coming dhs had a budget of $39 billion. now almost 60 billion employs more than 225,000 people and operates in 75 countries and is the nation's third-largest federal agents be. congressional watchdogs have issued thousands of report with race or improve efficiency and save tax dollars. the government accountability office had overruns that dhs acquisition programs have incurred. as yesterday, dhs remains in gao's high-risk list in several

areas including the departments management. the inspector general has identified up to 1 billion in costs. dhs has to implement this cost savings opportunities. in november 2012, inspector general identifies significant challenges and how the department protects the homeland and manages operations. the report noted difficulties for securing airport in identifying travelers in the united states in determining whether to declare federal disasters despite spending $4.3 billion in response efforts annually. the ig stated much more work remains for dhs to efficiently manage finances, consolidate databases to efficient data systems and improve acquisition outcomes. other examples of waste they dhs have been revealed. for example, recent congressional investigation found tsa has over 3500 staff

and headquarters in average salary over $100,000. he figures from include tsa screeners across the country from which to learn to 42,011, resulting in spending over 3 billion, half its budget in payroll compensation and benefits. according to press reports coming dhs generally told a $61 million in awards in 2011 despite the hard economic times and reduced take-home pay for many hard-working americans. since its inception, dhs has spent for the 35 billion in homeland security grants. a recent report documents how dhs prioritizes funding with employees using crampons to pay a thousand dollars fee for a conference at the paradise plants small where they participated in zombie apocalypse training. other examples exist of

children's mascots, overpriced streaming from the materials and bagpipes for the customs and border protection. while dhs has taken steps to improve management, i believe the american people deserve better. for over $16 trillion in debt. hard-working families attachmate difficult budget difficult budget decisions. dhs must do the same. numerous examples of programs with cost overruns come the scourge delays and problems cannot continue in this budget environment. ramus self-insured dhs becomes abettors turreted taxpayer dollars. this anniversary of the creation presents the subcommittee with an opportunity to reflect on what has worked, what is not worked and we dhs needs to improve. recommendations will help us better understand issues that dhs faces and identify ways to help dhs improved and i look forward to their testimony.

the chair will not recognize the gentleman from arizona, mr. barber, for in a statement he may have. >> thank you, mr. chairman. is a pleasure to be here this morning and woke up the witnesses and members of the senate committee. i'm looking forward to working with the chairman and a productive and bipartisan manner is to connect homeland security and other security functions. it is apparent already have been met chairman and spoken at length that we see eye to eye in many issues related to efficiency and effectiveness of the department and i appreciate his courtesy and collaboration as we know this agenda forward. this is their first meeting of the 113 congress and i cannot think of a better ratio to examine the manner in which the department span hard-earned taxpayer money. department of homeland security has some of the largest budgets.

each year approximately $40 billion flow in and out of the department. these funds are used to pay employees, secure aviation system, provide seed eight state to state and purchase equipment used by those protect importers. what over to the the taxpayers to ensure that these funds are appropriately used, fully accounted for that wisely. unfortunately, that is not always been the case at the department of homeland security. my congressional district includes over 80 miles u.s.-mexico border and constituents along the border are particularly affected their criminal activities on the border with 40% of all drug seizures and apprehensions occurring in the two sunset there. this is unacceptable. we must do better. the department must do better.

i'm reminded as to think about safety of two deaths occurred within the last two and half years. the chairman mentioned we attended a dedication ceremony on the southwest border program kerry was killed in the line of duty. i'm also reminded of the death of rock crimes come a rancher, fourth-generation rancher who was killed on his own land by a cartel member. the safety of our citizens and safety of the men and women who protect our order. as a representative and one of only 10 members of congress that represent district that shares a border with mexico, and committed to ensuring we improve border security along the southwest border. local law enforcement agencies have seen firsthand how the

department uses taxpayer dollars to secure the border and we can do more. in 2006 fix the department of homeland security announces plan along the southwest border that would serve and provide information that needs to secure the border. the contract another project to go forward did so prohibiting border patrol agencies, those from providing input to develop an implementation that system. in over $1 billion later were so without a plan of a chilling vision and in subsequent surveillance technology program remains in question. according to the gao, the department does not have the information necessary to support and implement the estimated $1.5 billion plan, which is the successor to the multibillion

dollars net. in addition to to find surveillance technology and from $1.5 billion cost estimate for the program may not be reliable. if this plan or a survivalist over $2 billion in border security technology with little more to show the canceled checks via contractors. this is but one example where the department must fix its broken acquisition system to improve each of cost analysis and make sure that we have a better way of purchasing and deploying to elegy. the administration has made improvements. the newly created risk management and appears to be a step in the right direction.

i am concerned only 45 staff foreignness office responsible for over $18 million. making use of scarce taxpayer dollars and doing all it can to protect men and women who live along the border is the first responsibility of the department in a primary responsibility for the committee. i look forward to testimony and oversight of this important topic. i yield back. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you, ranking member. you are reminded opening statements may be submitted for the record. we're pleased to have a distinguished panel of witnesses on this topic. the honorable jim gilmore is chairman of the congressional advisory panel peer capabilities for terrorism with weapons of mass destruction. the commonwealth of virginia from 1998 to 2002.

he served the united states county. thank you for the service commissary. in 2009, became president and ceo free congress foundation. mr. shawn reese is an expert at the congressional research service. he has written numerous reports on local human security issues. he has testified before the house and the homeland security advisory system, the house homeland security committee of federal counterterrorism programs. prior is the opposite of the united states army for 10 years, thank you for your service commissary. currently a senior at the center for strategic and international studies. in september 2009 after retiring from the united states navy.

thank you for your service commissary appeared in two of the selected to serve service as a natural member of the national counterterrorism center's strategic planning. prior to his assignment, mr. nelson served as associate director for maritime security and office of combating terrorism and the national security council. ms. cathleen berrick is managing director of homeland security and justice issues that the government accountability office. in this position she oversees department of homeland security department of justice programs and operations. prior to manage and direct your, she oversaw the reviews of aviation and transportation security matters as well as department of homeland security management issues. ms. berrick held department of defense and u.s. postal service.

thank you for being here in the chair will now start by recognizing governor gilmore testify. mr. ranking member, thank you for the information tenures on after 9/11 and 9/11 attacks. the pre-congress foundation can be seen at congress.org started to address many good pictures not the least of which is homeland security issues. i chair the national advisory panel on homeland security for three years before the 9/11 attack follows the governor of virginia. 10 years on tour in a position to do assessment. colleagues with me today are experts in this field. other to address the strategic

issues for just a moment. the fundamental question is do you have a strategic plan adequate to safeguard the nation and is homeland security to carry out that? how can you really assess effectiveness of the department of homeland security and the cgm and the mission and strategic plan and whether they're successful at that. you can focus on tsa, coast guard, office of preparedness and expenditure to carry these missions. we did not recommend the office because it doesn't include the department of defense, cia, fbi and most importantly local and state officials feared the question before the committee is, has the strategic plan included enough to be able to secure the homeland? i pointed to issues. al qaeda has said in their statement or pull is to collapse

the economy. that's what they said in the committee should remember that within the context overnight carry out an effective program that draws too much money unnecessarily. that's why this committee's work is so important. secondly, i want to point to drug traffic on the southern border precisely is the ranking member dave. this is a serious danger and remains so. they threaten members not only the southern border but across the united states. young people who are becoming dated and this is not a voluntary matter curbing this dirt. in the nation is weakened by these issues. the issues of cooperations with allies in line for us that people is.

and they focus on the last two minutes on a real concern i have on the issue of civil liberties of the united states. the real danger here is that there will be another attack. it's almost likely there'll be another attack in the hands of adversaries is such an attack results in either panic, hysteria aren't secured in the minds of the people of the united states, there is danger of over reaction. not only the public, that of the congress of the united states. i plan out the patriot act was passed in 26 days after 9/11. there's a political need to get reelected and get those votes and show real activity. this can happen again by condemning the patriot act. i am concerned about the mindset that could occur there's another

attack were not properly prepared. so i would suggest to members of the committee had a goal we should see an homeland security is more public discussion of the people states about the nature of the true threat, whether or not there's a real danger, with the potential preparedness is in the nation as a whole, how vocal people should be cut in and participate in whether or not are prepared to respond in this kind of leadership opportunity is very significant. it's a big opportunity, but the department is quiet in terms of discussion that the american people. confidence and columnists will be necessary to make sure they don't restrict the liberties in exchange for security. the goal has to be a response plan in place, well understood

that not only secures this nation, but also simultaneously and without any mitigation secures the american people at the same time. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you on the on the governor for that testimony. the chair will now recognize mr. reese. >> chairman duncan, make you member barbara, i would like to thank you for the opportunity to appear before the subcommittee to discuss homeland security. crs is specifically to discuss definitions and mission and how multiple definitions within strategic documents affect the funding and risk is prioritization of these missions. many observers agree it clear prioritization of national homeland security missions is needed and a consensus definition is necessary to prioritize missions ranging, for tempo, border security into

disaster assistance. my written statement discusses the absence of both the standard homeland security definition in a single national homeland security strategy. a lot of potential issues related to the matters. i will now discuss these issues. homeland security is not funded using clearly defined national risk-based priority. arguably, these priorities need to be set and clear in order for funding to the most effect gave aired in august 2007, congress enacted the 9/11 commission recommendation site which require dhs secretary to conduct a quite general review of homeland security. this was to be comprehend that examination of the homeland security strategy, including recommendations regarding a long-term strategy and guidance

on the programs come assay capabilities, budget, policies and authority of the department. later, critics argue the original 2010 version did not meet requirements. currently, dhs is developing the 2014 quaternion review. now might be an ideal time to review the concept of homeland security and how the concept and definition affect congressional appropriation and identification of priority. however, within 10 years policymakers continue to grapple with the definition of concept of homeland security. today are numerous strategies such as national strategy for global supply-chain security and national risk on three mark. however, today is no single comprehend the national homeland security strategy. the concept is evolving. one may argue it might be waning

on a separate comprehensive concept. evidence can be found and corporations of the homeland security staff and the national security staff and inclusion of homeland security guidance in the 2010 national security strategy. there has not been a distinct national homeland security strategy since 2007. additionally, the office of management and budget has questioned value of requiring the federal department and agencies to identify homeland security funding in fy 2014 budget request submissions. three options stand out to address these issues. first, congress could require a distinct homeland security strategy similar to the bush administration's 2007. second, congress could require a

national security strategy a sustained risk instruments charity priorities. finally, they focus on dhs activity. this would entail further refining, which is present in doing. in closing, maltz: competing definitions that hamper congressional authorization, appropriation, oversight and restrict dhs and other federal entities ability to prioritize and execute homeland security missions. failure to prioritize based on risk may result in unintended consequences. i will conclude my testimony and thank you for the privilege to appear before you. back thank you so much. sure will not recognize mr. nelson. >> chairman duncan, ranking member barber for the

opportunity to testify today. , to note i am now a vice president across technologies. a day to discuss how the american people can work together to support dhs continue to position through this a security model. following 9/11 we gave the mandate to project a people from all things all the time. but the mandate can digest. times have changed in order for dhs to protect the homeland during budgets, with nation must not just basic vital fact we cannot guarantee enough or should i actually security. instead come when protect the nation or risky securities hit this will require greater risk start in allocating resources and so stressed. dhs must be accelerated and to

his support of congress. we have not had the political will to implement models coming out the silver lining has forced his past hurdles with an opportunity to embrace the risk-based approach. her remarks focused on two key areas for further efficiency can be made. my written testimony includes ideas and news. first, dhs will continue to focus on intelligence sharing and the risk-based security enables policymakers and analysts to make decisions for the risk is highest. the department of transition towards this model. the federal government and stick them matters in the private sector. the current architecture vision centers may not be fully optimized and will play a

valuable role in information sharing and must not be abandoned. as such, dhs must ensure controversy over how these do not threaten continued utility. the public must have entities and will continue to participate if they have value beyond counterterrorism and must work to strike a balance between counterterrorism. the second issue i want to disguise his screen and credentialing. lance of individuals every day seek to gain access from air travel to computer systems and the efficient means are vital to the risk-based security approach allow dhs to allocate resources against those who pose the greatest threat it is spread across agencies of the dhs to diffuse the model and budgets will increasingly become untenable. for the department the way it

had enterprise approach, integration should be accelerated and programs that pre-checking global entry should continue to be expanded to include a greater number of travelers whoever it is her essays. travelers enrolled should provide an i.d. number that will recognize programs have greater increase in operability. streamlining can not only increase security. secretary napolitano stated a goal of having 50% of travelers a trusted program within two years. the school should be embraced and supported by congress. the return of risk they security will not be without its challenges and commerce committee hs in the american people engaged in an ongoing dialogue about priorities and the level of risk we're willing to accept. it's important to emphasize and understand matter how well executed company adoption will inherently mean some degree of

risk and we must be willing to accept not only the best that the judge consequences and we cannot simply provide complete protection if and when there is an attack. furthermore, accepting will see increased resources, others receive little or nothing. if we are going to accept these facts, homeland security will reorient the stories to my start even as budgets are tight. thank you for the opportunity to testify. >> thank you so much for that testimony. >> good morning, chairman duncan, member services committee. and please to be here to discuss dhs's ongoing efforts. when dhs began operations 10 years ago, gao recognize creating such a large and complex department would take years to achieve. since that time is conducted an

extensive body of work at the department can't issue number 1300 products in making 1800 recommendations to strengthen programs and operations. our work is collectively shown the department has made significant progress across its range of missions. it is important to note dhs is maturing. more work remains in several crosscutting themes to the affected efforts and need to into the address moving forward. dhs has developed operational plans, hired to play and trained workforces, established offices and programs and issued policies and regulations to govern operations. more work remains. many problems come with a significant price tag. for example, we report a dhs is better information and coordination to prevent unnecessary duplication among four overlapping programs that

together account for 20 billion in grants awarded from 2002 through 2011. in another example of is mentioned by representative barber, dhs experienced delays shortfalls a secure border initiative program resulting in cancellation. dhs has taken action to address a small percentage of overstayed visas. we report chs could also reduce costs related to disaster declarations by up to in the principal indicator in which decisions are based to reflect the states capability to respond to a disaster. about 25% fewer disasters may have been funded by the federal government between 2004 and 2011. although the reasons theory, we identify common themes and

should be addressed straightforward. dhs has made important strides in management functions such as acquisition in years. however, challenges remain serious risk. dhs programs continue to cost more than expected, take longer to deploy and deliver less capability than promised. we reported in september the 42 out of 70 major programs theater experience cosgrove and schedule slippages or both. 16 accountant for 32 billion in cost overruns over a three-year period thingy to strengthen management functions is on gao's hiring list for this reason. dhs has made strides in leadership and coordinated efforts of stakeholders but have to take additional action for partnerships inutile is nation

of terrorism and law enforcement information. gao designated sharing as high-risk including dhs anomalous 2005. limitation of strategic program planning and assessments have hindered the effort. dhs to make progress analyzing risk across the years, but less than actually incorporating information into its planning and budgeting decision process. given the significant leadership role, it's critical its programs and operations of a sufficiently active as possible and continue to the church to address security needs. nearly 10 years after dhs's creation, they've made significant progress but have yet to reach full potential.

thank you for the opportunity to testify. i look forward to questions. >> i think the witnesses for providing your comments before hand. the chair will recognize themselves for a question. it's a tremendous opportunity for us to stop and look back at the effectiveness of the department. oversight to ensure taxpayer dollars are spent effectively is an important part enrile of congress. the protection of civil liberties is in my opinion just as important. but the passage of nba and fear of indefinite detention, the talk of journeys over the united states territory and executive orders and cyberterrorism do concern americans about civil

liberties and privacy. governor gilmore, you cannot make the issues civil liberty is a cornerstone of the commission. are you satisfied the department evaluating in terms of how well they preserve our right to make sure they are crossing the line? >> now, congressman, i am not. as i said, my principal concern remains about a third discussion extract and prepared as there is an environment that could endanger and threaten civil freedoms that the united states father said an american old demand a response that congress feels it must respond and civil liberties could be the first thing overboard. he mentioned the defense authorization act. i think it's a legitimate concern. one principal focus was whether

or not views the military in the homeland. if you create a panic for stressed environment, there is a danger the executive branch will respond and use whatever resources are available without regard to our restriction, which of course is a doctrine that prohibits military and the homeland. as some of the five focus is of our panel and concern over this environment. the national defense authorization act in our view just began to nato's military treat domestic responsibility any domestic function. this is not good a nice way focus of our panel was to focus on local and state responders as well as law enforcement so

nonmilitary people do what is necessary to protect the homeland. once again, at the close of fans there, i'm concerned exactly the issue you point out. >> i share the concern as well and just recently, the general assembly in my home state passed legislation to put her in so we're watching that very closely. i went they come in the committee but a new perspective on rights of the homeland. the comeback initiative spoke at appointing chief operating officer for department of homeland security. they met yesterday and he elaborated dispositions should have a specific qualification retirement, performance contracting be considered at level two. i release a department of defense has done something

similar. from a management role, how effect do you think this model is for helping dhs and proven leadership and implementation capabilities? >> thank you, mr. chairman. that can be effective in that it's a suggestion made early in the department creation, have a central authority continuity of the operations. i also think dhs current structure but undersecretary for management can be effective if the individuals given authority resources to implement position effectively. a few months ago, dhs has issued a and management authority among the various components in recent a positive step in the right direction. i think both models can work. dhs is structured to achieve the

same end or management to support an authority he or she needs. >> thanks for that. a final follow-up you talk about congress directing dhs initiative through budgeting and other things. you think congress should have more day today, hands-on input on how the money should be spent, directing dhs in certain areas? >> i see now, i don't have an opinion, but there is an option that congress could be in all the legislation possibly requiring dhs to identify either through mission focused and risk-based priorities within the department or could like a cross cutting and getting the whole of government to discuss and prioritize and that is one way

to effect turning appropriations. >> chair will now recognize mr. barber first question. >> thank you, mr. chairman. as a think about how we spend or should spend public money, i think it should be like all of us do with curtains and care. one more piece of course went public money spent has to be accountable and that's an issue and want to get to this morning. i understand they've made progress. where better than we were and we hopefully can improve or so nearside. it is no small task i acknowledge the secretary of state, but the most important and challenging tasks to bring together 22 agencies to an effective working organization. a long time ago i participated in the formation of an agency that brought together a state

agencies in 1974 and a silly work in progress. we can afford to let that be an issue for department of homeland security. our trust to question if you could. the department is ranked ninth tenet of 19 among large federal agencies on overall employee satisfaction. i heard directly from our border patrol agents about examples of the problems with management and priorities. we've had is ask jason six years in the tucson sector. despite concerns raised by people on the ground, men and women who protect our country within attention to priorities. beginning with the most basic needs, i've been told currently employees or agents unable to

purchase uniforms for dirty. agents assigned along the border have an church or 24 hour staffing up to a week at a time without overtime. what impact do you think these policies and dissatisfaction has on security and effectiveness of the departmental functions and what do you believe the department can do to improve leadership and management of the workforce? >> thank you for that question. dhs in my opinion in washington d.c. is one of the most difficult places to work for a variety of reasons. one is the mandate very have to make up every morning and protect all people all the time. they have zero margin for error. no other than interacts with the american people on such a

personal level asked his dhs, which makes their job extraordinarily difficult. it's only 10 years into this. we didn't have a dhs workforce waiting to come into action. we didn't have a unified department. this dynamic has taken its toll, but i leave the department has made significant strides in creating a home in the purity personnel cadre to tend to those individuals and have career paths to do the best they can to meet me and and demands. we have to have a homeland security work force for individuals at the department or agency of people at the agencies familiar with departments. the greater challenge is it's not just an internal issue. they have to do this with code and sql governments and the private sector. creating the workforce is going to take time and strategic investment. thank you.

>> i remain concerned that employee morale is at such a low level. they want to preserve individual authority, but must do better for those men and women who go into record territory to protect their homeland and deserve better. when they ask you if i could about another issue along with ranking member of the homeland to charity congressman thompson, requested a review of the new strategic plan. the report came out a month ago with public meetings in arizona. was disappointing was was the results showed when the department rolled out its strategic plan, had no goals, metrics or evaluation processes.

as the department has accepted recommendations by november of this year to implement them, interview, what steps should be taken to bring that about it he should be at the table? who should be asked about what should be the gold service management and evaluation process before those changes are aspects of the plans are implemented. >> thank you. it's important a plan be put in place. last year the goals and measures are important because it's really how dhs is going to define security at the border. but ultimately are they shooting for in terms of ensuring security along the southwest border and along with that, to the resources they need to do that if the perp pics of resources? dhs used to have a masher for border security, operational

control they stop using since 2011. what i said was how well are we doing stopping illegal traffic coming through and goods coming out of her? they are just looking at retention, which is not sophisticated, doesn't have a great picture of security and the process of coming up with a better measure, but it's going on two years now that really needs to get resolved and coupled with that determine the appropriate mix of resources they need to support and achieve that goal. in terms of who they should bring up a table, they need to bring all relevant stakeholders. they should have agents on the ground that are dealing with this day in and day out. stakeholders on the border, other agencies play a role in this. as you mentioned and as i

mentioned in a statement, the need for dhs to forge effective partnerships to bring stakeholders on decision is critical. homeland security is not just dhs, so they're going to have to bring stakeholders and get their input. >> time is expired. which are not recognized recognizes the gentleman from pennsylvania, mr. rothfus great question. >> thank you, mr. chairman. and thank you for the work you've done in preparing testimony today. looking at the 10 year history of dhs and the disparate agencies can have any of you given consideration as to perhaps some of these agencies should be reorganized and, with there be any merit to taking a look and putting them together? but i am wondering about is whether there might be a more efficient structure at the

agency that frankly could help around. any idea. consideration of reorganization of elements within the agency that would promote more efficiency. >> i think they could have been organized in a number of different ways. the decision was made to integrate 22 component. dhs can be successful is organized, but there's some crosscutting issues that need to address. when a spanish one the department with a direct impact on ability to implement their missions. his other crosscutting issues, strategic planning, risk assess men's. perhaps this is on the question as they were first created, but

they can be successful, but they need to address these issues in order to be. >> spin at the agency since its creation. is that not true? >> to respond very quickly, you're concerned about morale because of the department. the department came together as a group of existing agencies, things as disparate as border control and has started all this. all of a sudden they're being honest to take on new identities. it isn't all that up domestic about the ways being managed. we at the advisory panel focused our issue on the mission and that the committee should do that. the question is the nation performed successfully? if not, is that because we have

these organizations and can then be organized in a better way? the real challenges we spend money to integrate manager really the mission could be lost. >> to churn out recognizes the gentleman from texas. >> thank you, mr. chairman. you mentioned one of the ames al qaeda has been pursuing attacks against the united states is to destroy our economy. i represent much of el paso, texas. the cyprus adventure that passy billion dollars in trade annually, 20% of a u.s.-mexico trade and right now we have wait times for cargo to last up to nine hours and is becoming more good for some of the shippers to

air freight cargo out of that location on rather than through ports of entry. the potential for sequester impossibility we need to further cut positions when they are understaffed under ports of entry, can you or other panelists address what that might do to our economy and how we might better prioritize those crossings and remind everyone more than 6 million jobs in his country are dependent on the cross-border trade. >> is a remarkable question about how one harmonizes economic power of the united states with the challenge pc world via that power by threatening the economy and the economic challenges we see are deliberately and strategically the goal of a group of

adversaries don't want to undo that. so the mission you are discussing is a good one to land the table, which is how do we continue to have the commerce, what the same time deal with the problem of the ingestion of illegal drugs, illegal individuals, uneven arms in human trafficking. these are in the southern border and in my opening remarks the fact he needs to be admission. i think it's a legitimate question. have we become so focused on the managerial question about how we deal with the wrong, integration of all these organizations that were not able to achieve the mission to secure the economic strength and value of the united states. i think it's a legitimate inquiry. >> one of the issues you touched on in dissension began, so much

of the focus at ports of entry are legitimate crossings and the length of bordering between crossing is on interdict drugs. i don't want to minimize dangers those drugs pose to our communities and the most vulnerable, especially our children, the 16 states have approved medicinal marijuana. it's clear the direction regardless of how any of us feel about it. but that being said in one recent report shows 95% of the border patrols resources as they are connected to pursuing this war on drugs are focused on marijuana. do any of you have recommendations on how congress can respond and prioritize to focus on those threads and all agree i'm more existential.

human smuggling, those things that are true evils that we want to stop and prevent from entering this country. >> thank you. i do want to make a comment related on hot ago about that. back to the comment about the management of department. the reason management is so critical is because it enables and gives the ability to implement their mission and facilitate commerce well-balanced team. dhs is developing a program to detect shielded nuclear material in vehicles and containers and this is a critical mission of the department identified. again bouncing commerce to security the problem was they were developing it in marketing stakeholders involved in what requirements were. they weren't managing with

breaker and as a result ended up with a program that didn't even fit within primary inspection. i was a management issue that had a direct effect on the ability to secure our borders. so it's critical in making us have decisions is really central to that. >> another time as dumbest expired, but if i may give a direct answer, there will be no comparable with me to the legalization of any kind of drugs in the united states as a former prosecutor and attorney general is overlooked is the involuntary nature. we think it's a libertarian idea to do what they want to do in that kind of thing. the truth is people are doing what they should do or ought to do or want to do. they are doing what they are compelled to do with respect to marcotte x. if the danger of the united

states initially focus on when a more honest conversation with the american people about it. >> the chair recognizes the gentleman from north carolina and chairman of the transportation sub committee, mr. hudson. >> thank you, mr. chairman. is always a pleasure to be with you. i appreciate your comments about legalization of drugs. my question today is directed towards ms. berrick. the accountability office does an excellent job reporting federal programs, agencies and offices come initiatives that duplicate gold and activities and is issued key reports reports presenting opportunities to reduce potential government, duplication, hope agencies become more effective. what has gao identified as the key area overlap and department of homeland security activities? >> gao is mandated to report on

duplication across the federal government. we'll be issuing a third in april of this year. we identified 17 areas of duplication and fragmentation and billions of dollars we believe the department should address and some will require congressional action. the court may shed a programs. there's multiple grant programs that dhs administers with overlapping -- they are overlapping individuals and not maybe okay, but the department has had visibility and if an entity is getting multiple grants, and i was by design, not by accident. we believe the department is better coronation of the projects and there's also opportunity to streamline the grants so there's not that many out there to make it easier to

manage. another example is related to federal disaster assistance. when the president makes decisions about a federal disaster request that, >> informs the president's decision by the capability to respond. they base that on a per capita income indicator and right now it is $1.35. that is created in 1996 or there was a whole lot of analysis and it hasn't been adjusted for inflation every year since. had that indicator been adjusted to reflect increases in per capita income, 44% of disasters declared over the last year. perhaps would not have been funded by the federal government .

..

. >> tsa funds be baggage screening pogrom from a pickup 90% of that. the airports pick up 10%. we identify that tsa made a recommendation and they should rework the cost share. is that appropriate, given that the airports are getting some benefit, which benefits them. we think those are the types of things that dhs should put more emphasis on. gao is actually tracking dhs and the governments efforts to implement our recommendations. and we will see to chart our

progress and address those issues. >> thank you, i appreciate the good work that you do. >> we now recognize senator paine from new jersey. >> i would like to thank the witnesses for being here today. is there a way we can courteney technology and communication so we can ensure all of our cargo is checked? >> dhs screens all cargo containers coming into the united states. they created a program called secure freight initiative.

but they have to give agreements with the host countries, there is a big price tag associated with it. dhs is really going to have to indicate what is the highest risk containers and utilize the programs they have in place right now. to really target their resources where they can provide the most benefits. benefit. as we said today, they cannot secure everything. >> let me ask you also. it is my understanding that you work with private contractors,

even though federalized employees, most of the employees pay less. would you agree that this leads to reduced morale and the use of contractors presented as? >> a few years ago dhs couldn't even identify how many contractors -- they really need to think through what is an inherently governmental function versus contractors. i think that that is step number one. obviously with that,.

>> well, i would think that bringing them in house would be able to control costs more effectively, and i yield back my time. >> the gentleman yield spec is time. the chair recognizes the next senator. >> we actually share borders in montana with other big sky

state. it is refreshing to hear the testimony. have you looked at and found ways, ways that we can perhaps spend less money and get more in regards to border security? it is a huge topic. it is a topic that everyone in washington will pay have front and center. we can perhaps get better value from the way we administer border security, the first thing that dhs can do is to use a lot of good information that is generated and really build that into the decision-making. to recognize that they are not going to be able to secure everything 100% of the time. so what are the riskiest things, if you will, and i think that is important. the second thing that is important is when they decide that they need to implement a program or elsewhere, really

putting the rigor and discipline into thinking through exactly what is the right alternative and how we go about procuring it. oftentimeoftentime s we found that dhs hasn't done a great job looking at the alternatives, weighing the pros and cons, and delete putting the discipline into the process that they need versus the rushing with one solution that may not be the best alternative. of course we recognize that dhs has worked quickly to respond to the threats that are involved. sometimes they may not have the luxury to do what i am suggesting. but looking at the department's overall, there have been a number of missed opportunities, we believe. they haven't really done that planning up front that ultimately would have benefited them. as a result, programs that are not successful or take years longer to get them out than they had hoped. >> i have a follow-up question.

when i look at the state of montana, we are a state that in 120 place washington dc, the other corner you could play chicago. we talk a lot about the southern border, rightfully so. perhaps in comments on the northern border and vulnerability that we are putting in effort they are. >> network is required. cpus to have an operational control measure. the southwest border in 2011 said they had operational control of about 40% of the

border. on the northern border, that is much lower and less than 10% of the time. it is a difficult border to secure and has unique challenges. we think one thing that dhs can do is really leverage partnerships along the border and create taskforces and try to make risk based decision making. this is going to be a part of implementing the strategic plan. the plan was implemented last year to identify the framework for how they are going to secure the southwest and northern borders. but they haven't made a lot of progress moving forward with that plan and putting meat around what will that mean in terms of programs and resources. that will be a critical aspect that they will have to think through if they as they move forward with the plan. >> congress and? >> if i could add something, the

canadians are the most loyal allies and friends. by the way, our biggest commercial partners in the united states of america -- sometimes they feel like the united states neglects them in terms of respect and cooperation. i think that those are diplomatic issues. i will answer your question by saying that we need to spend more time thinking about the cia, fbi, all are sharing information for billy to recognize that this and the danger -- otherwise you end up with thousands of miles of untracked area and it is impossible to do. as you know, congress, many are divided by the border. >> thank you, governor. >> last two years, we have had significant progress between dhs and the government of canada on the border action plan.

this action recently -- canada was recently briefing now. there our programs. there are demands inside the great lakes. it has been one of the strengths of what the department has done in regards to the national cooperation. to have more free trade and canada has now made a commitment to some of these programs. it is important to think about these things as well. >> constrained resources, it would be the citizens and local law enforcement as well that work together in patrolling these vast piles of our northern border. >> the time is expired. but we do have time for a second round of questioning if the members of like to do that. if the witnesses can enjoy.

[laughter] >> i would like to thank governor gilmore for intelligence sharing with our neighbors. i have passed the bill signed by the president in the western hemisphere, and that includes canada. but also, our southern neighbors as well. those who have any sort of threat to the homeland. that's a valuable think are coming from the private sector, what i see out of government is a lot of times they do not operate efficiently like we have to operate in the private sector. either operate efficiently, be productive and profitable, or go out of business. or someone else can do a better and take away from you. i would like to ask him at the private sector constantly finds deficiencies better incorporate a business model.

how can we learn from the processes and the business of homeland security alerts? >> mr. chairman, it always comes down, as i think there is a consistent team of all the witnesses today to the strategy in the planning and the strategic mission. we have to determine the best possible way to do that. government will never be as efficient as private contractors. to return to the comments of congressmen donald payne, back when we get our commission report, we actually initiated the notion of secure trusted shippers so that you can look and see overseas who is bringing things in. then you can have confidence that those are going to be safe and secure, and you focus on the risk based suspect containers. that means that your employees are in a position to concentrate attention as they so lowly loyally do on that type of

medicine and transmission. but the key is that you have to understand what your mission is and that requires what you are doing this morning. >> the term operational control has been used a lot since i have been in congress. no one has really been able to define to me what operational control truly is. so i will ask the panel, all four of you. what is operational control of our border in your opinion? >> when the cpus that measure a couple of years ago, a lot of different factors went into calculating it. it was apprehension, turned backs, estimated flow coming across the border. currently they are looking at apprehension.

now they say it may have taken until 2014, for that. i'm sure that congress will ask gao to look at it. once they do define it, but right now they don't have it operational processed white. >> i would measure how effective we are at achieving the mission. are we effective at keeping terrorist attacks at bay. the effectiveness at the border. the apprehensions and whatever method will never fully capture that. it is also difficult to catch and how effective it is.

it is an issue that the congress is taking on this year. how do you measure that when you don't know what the strategic guidance may be from congress or the president on this particular issue and they are still waiting to hear that, that will be important moving forward. >> mr. james? >> i have heard them say that border security is not an issue. as we are talking, the very agency that is responsible for operational control is having a hard time defining it. we don't have this concept yet, or we have a concept that is not spoken to. until we have a discussion like we do right now, we will continue to wonder what does

this operational control mean? i do not have an answer for you, congressman. >> governor, what effect does it really mean. the government talking to itself about what it is trying to achieve. operational control, i don't know if we have operational control or not. it is an incident of american sovereignty as to whether we have control over our borders are not. we are kidding ourselves. we know where we are. those routes and methodologies can be used by potential terrorists if they decide to do a military operation against us. that is why it is important. at the end of the day, i want to come back to this last theme. if we are going to have operational control of our borders, it is going to be because people of the united states are engaged in this issue and understand when they participate in drug activity or other kinds of activity. if they are enabling a lack of

operational control over our borders. at the end of the day, homeland security is the job of every citizen of the united states and not just for the government. >> thank you for that. before i turn over to the ranking member, i will discuss a conversation we had about ranchers in his district but are fearful to leave their children at home to go into town to buy a gallon of milk. because of the folks are coming across our border. i think when you talk about operational control, it needs to be to the point of safety and security. >> we are talking about the

security plan rolled would outlast me. unfortunately without goals or measurements or an evaluation process, when i hear anecdotally from the ranchers, i hear from them all the time on conference calls and in other ways. that they are unsafe in their home. to me that is an indication that where they live, they don't have a secure border where he border to keep them safe. as we think about this new risk-based strategic plan, we should be at the table. and i agree that all the stickler should be at the table.

what are the ways that we can measure success using the strategic plan? >> you mentioned data. that is one point to make upfront. right now, the sectors are collecting data in different ways, so it's very difficult for somebody to come in and look across the sectors and draw conclusions. secondly a part of their strategic plan, we talked about the measures and the goals. another part of the strategic plan that still has to be implemented is how they are going to leverage stakeholder relationships and how those are going to be developed and supported and relating to security along the southwest border. so they still need to define how that looks like and how they are going to implement. that is going to be really critical as well. i think that as you mentioned,

they are going to have to make decisions, and obviously what is security along the border? first of all, let's define it today. border patrol has been operating under the assumption of whatever resources they have. they are thinking based on the budget that we have, what do we want for security along the southwest border and to do that in a risk-based way. once they define that, we need to have measures and collect data in a consistent way so that they can objectively look at what extent we are achieving them. right now i don't think it has been defined and we don't have data that has been consistently collected. >> thank you, i would agree. i have heard that from many different people and we have been collecting the same information. let me ask a question, now governor, let me ask a question of you.

there have been numerous occasions where the department has spent millions of dollars in wasted millions of dollars on technology that doesn't achieve the intended security goal. as a former business owner myself, as mentioned earlier, i have heard from a number of small business owners that everyone has a great idea. what is your thinking about how we can change that situation, that dynamic. these good ideas should at least be heard. >> well, i have never been able to relate. [laughter] no, congressman.

it really comes down to administrative and congressional demand that the mission itself be effectively carried out. then i think there must be a focus and oversight on the best way to do that and whether the department of homeland security is implementing it. so we go back to many of the usual suspects in the defense community. the question is are there better ideas that can be incorporated. can we find a new methodology to do that other than the general contract of an approach. dhs hires a big player and then they innovate small players and some the -- some that are subcontractors. that is an administrative

approach. >> the chair recognizes steven daines. >> going back to the hearing is spending tax dollars wisely. by determining the ranking member, they are asking questions about value. every dollar is scrutinized for return on investment. i would like to move over to the issue of cybersecurity. i think it's another hot topic. how do we insure against the most effective bang for the buck as it relates to the spending dollars and cybersecurity. i have only been here for 40 plus days, but i can say that this town knows how to spend money. i want to make sure that we are getting a good return on investment and value. >> thank you for the question. i think that dhs has a huge role

in this. it comes back to our information sharing and architecture, which is in place for the most part. how do we utilize back? we utilize the fusion centers. one of the things that we must focus on when it comes to cyber, is that field of information has to go to waste. it cannot just be that the department is giving threat information to the corporations are companies, but the companies have to be willing to share that threat information. that is one of the biggest challenges we are having right now. that is something that dhs is looking at a low cost solution. how do we open up communication and what we are facing. >> another is dhs, as an institution, should be able to leave the federal government on security training. every department has some sort of security training.

consolidate those resources and let them set the baseline for how the government employees should be trained. thank you. >> thank you. i yield back. >> if i could add, congressman, yesterday, i discovered i left my cell phone charger in richmond when i came back to washington. when my cell phone went down, it i felt completely disengage. i had to respect my ipad. the more sophisticated economy that is developing in the united states -- if the terrorists can disrupt our cyberabilities, they can disable our responsibilities. that certainly is true and the terrorist situation. they are completely unconnected to department of homeland security. the question that one would heat is do we have a unified

approach. >> [inaudible] >> any comments on how we can unleash the private sector, who is in their self-interest, to ensure that we have a hard network and a good security. any comments from the members? >> it comes down to enabling dhs work with those entities. should it be that we have dhs embedded and we have to make

those relationships much more robust, and that is going to be the key going forward. >> if i could just add, gao has designated cybersecurity. we spent a lot of time looking at these issues. they would be happy to talk to you more about the work we have recommended across the government. it is a massive problem and dhs has key responsibilities. you asked about the private sector. it will be a federal effort and gao will be happy to come up and talk to in more detail if you'd

like. with that, i recognize the gentleman from texas. >> mr. nelson, he said the secretary's goals of getting 50% of travelers enrolled in the traveler program, like the sentry program, again, to use el paso as an example, we have millions of border crossings every year. you can imagine the thousands of jobs that are tied to that.

many are waiting in line. it can be 35 degrees and raining and i'll pass i pass out, and folks are waiting three and four hours for the privilege of spending their hard-earned dollars in the el paso economy. moment cost $122. it may not seem a lot to some of us, but for the folks that are passing, that is money that they

don't have any one given time. is there any wisdom in finding way to cover that cost for the benefit of having those folks screen and reducing the labor at the border crossing and helping the economy of the el paso area and the united states? >> thank you for that question. i appreciate that. we talk about the balance between privacy and security. there is always we a critical junction between trade and security. we have to provide a secure border. using something like biometrics, which is, it confirms the identity and allows dhs to screen individuals. most of the people that are

crossing the border from the united states want to go back to mexico. once we get them in the system once, it expedites how they are crossing in regards to el paso and then go back and dhs can spend time going after those that are trying to smuggle drugs or illicit activities. if they invest in capability to pursue this, you will see a cost savings in terms of trade. >> for governor gilmore, again, i appreciate your comments in regards to how we better pursue the war on drugs. the illegal and dangerous drugs. we are spending billions of dollars right now to interdict these drugs.

by volume, marijuana is marijuana is the largest grid we have put up billions of dollars in malls and doubled the size of border patrol. in the spirit of today's hearing, how do we spend that money more effectively, do a better job of interdicting and stopping the drugs coming into the communities. and yet still meet the needs of our border crossings? >> i have actually been to el paso, i appreciate you are able representation of that community and economic well-being. i appreciate the spirit of your remarks are today. you can tell by my emphasis today that i am deeply concerned about this because my answer is

that i see the poisoning of young people whether it is in el paso or chicago. a threat to national security, and that's the way that i define national security as well as al qaeda and other potential attacks. we just saw the protestations from new york. i believe that the enabling of any drug culture in this country is in the best interest to be solved here in the united states. we cannot pick and choose and

make those decisions. but we need to have respect for what this country is in use our minds accordingly. >> i would like to thank the committee and dhs. the witnesses and their valuable testimony and the members for their questions and participation today. the members of the committee may have some additional questions and pursuant to committee rules, the hearing will be held open for 10 days. without objection, the subcommittee stands adjourned. [inaudible conversations] >> coming up next, a hearing with chris dodd. and another look at the apartment of homeland security.

the budget cuts known as sequestration and the pentagon and veterans were discussed on newsmakers with carol rogers, representative of kentucky on the republican side. saturday, the pb is in savanna georgia for the saturday, booktv is in savanna, georgia. al gore, the future. and at 1:30 p.m., jake tapper on his book the war in afghanistan. the savanna book festival is part of booktv this president

day weekend on c-span2. >> former senator chris dodd is now part of the motion picture association of america. from the national press club, this is an hour. >> hello, i am the 106 president of the national press club and we are the world's leading organization for journalists, committed to our future through the programming and including events like this while fostering a free press worldwide. please visit our website at www.press.org. donate to a program offered to the public through the national press club journalism institute, visit press.org/institute.

on behalf of our members worldwide, i would like to welcome our speaker. those of you who are attending today's event as well. our head table guests include guest of the speaker as well as of the speaker as well as a working journalist to her club members. if you hear applause from the audience, please note that members of the general public are attending, and it is not evidence of a lack of journalistic objectivity. [laughter] i would also like to welcome our c-span and public radio audiences. our luncheons are featured on our member produced weekly podcast from the national press club available on itunes. you can follow the action on twitter today, using the hash tag tran-one. now it is time to introduce the head table. i would ask each of you to stand up briefly.

>> we have maria,, diane, chief operating officer and bob and donald gaucher, a reporter for usa today. we have andrea stone, freelance writer and a member who organized today's event. thank you for that. we have linda kramer jennings and she is a clamor magazine washington bureau chief, and jonathan smith, a reporter for the news and a former national press club president. [applause]

>> our speaker today is chris dodd. he is head of the national picture association of america. as chairman and ceo of the nmpaa, he made his debut last year at last year's oscar wirtz breaky remains the best-known here as the god of the dodd-frank consumer protection act from the most sweeping legislative reform since the 1930s. he is most proud of his records on children and family issues. he was the author of the 1993

family and medical leave of he would later moved his wife, jackie, and their two young daughters a few months before the first of the nation caucuses. but then senator barack obama camp 10 minutes colleagues in the caucuses. [laughter] a senate ethics panel later cleared him of wrongdoing.althod

hollywood's top lobbyist now, even though federal law prohibits it in congress for two years, or until last month -- now, as the successor to dan goodman, senator dodd is the voice of the entertainment industry. it is noted that it brings more revenue back to the united states and aerospace or automobiles. dobbs top priority is to fight the threat of online piracy and stop the illegal bootlegging of hollywood product. it has not been easy. on the first year of the job, he was saddled with the six major motion picture studios pushing for the passage of the soba.

the bill was eventually shelved. more recently, dodd has taken heat from critics in newtown, connecticut, criticizing movies and violent video games. the sandy hook school is in his home state of connecticut and he said that he would do his part to help america heal, standing ready to be part of the national conversation. next weekend, however, everyone will be talking about the academy awards. he only recently became a hollywood insider himself. how is that? by the time he left public service, dodd had cast nearly 10,000 roll call votes in the senate. as a member of the academy of motion picture arts and

sciences, he gets to vote himself. did he go for "zero dark thirty"? "lincoln" or "argo"? please join me in welcoming senator chris dodd. [applause] thank you for the introduction, angela. i would like to point out that this is her first responsibility and job as host of these luncheons.

[applause] recently it was asked whether or not i missed the congress. i said yes, but not particularly this one. pointing out that even though i am long forgotten as a candidate, i might actually have an address with 1600 on it, although it is 1600 eiger street. [laughter] there were times when january 3, when an amendment was offered to the fiscal cliff legislation.

two years ago, he would've told me that i be standing before you and talking about the film and television industry, i would be asking what you were doing. i would not assume i be in this position. the last movie that i saw was the heffalump movie with my children. i must tell you that the last two years have been very

interesting. my friend dan glickman, he spent several years at the nmpaa. there are a number of people here in the audience who are with the motion picture association. educating me about the industry and what we can do to help. i am grateful to them for sharing all this with us today. almost two years ago today, as i begin my job and chief executive officer of the motion picture association of america, i was asked the following question by one of your colleagues here. the question was why do movies matter. i thought that was maybe a pretty good question. in these brief remarks today, nine days before the 85th academy awards ceremony in los angeles, i would like to try and

answer that question that was asked to meet some 23 months ago. motion pictures represent a spectacular conversion, visual art, language arts and music. attracting some of the world's creative and intelligent people to produce these are mockable products. to state the obvious about most audience, the bigger the better. that explains why some of the most creative talent is hollywood. after all, movies are an artform. art form. it is one of the most stimulating our campuses ever painted. movies matter because of the human emotions that they excite. they entertain and frightened, they convert, they amuse. and they educate. the best motion pictures elevate and enrich the cultural landscape.

it just to think differently and make us walk off in another person's shoes. most important, movies tell stories. free films that prominently feature policies or politics in their storylines, "lincoln", "argo", and "zero dark thirty." as a vehicle to raise awareness about important social and political issues, movies matter culturally as well. this ability to stimulate and provoke and challenge and educate, there's a moment ago,

has been at the heart at the film industry. for decades, the cast of their gaze on some of the most pressing problems of their day. once they did, actors and directors and writers are constantly taking a leap of faith, putting themselves on film for the world to see and scrutinize. confronting bigotry and the fear of aids, and casting a bright light as should have been. considering the impact, on racism with to kill a mockingbird or guess who's coming to dinner. these films have had such an impact on people here around the globe. the best movies brownness with

ideals. it makes us healthier as a people. gathered together in a darkened theater with our differences, we become in that shared experience one place. a place where 210-year-old children, one from a gritty west texas ranch and the other from a three family flat in the bronx, girls who might have little or nothing in common, we'll go to their local cinema on a saturday afternoon to see the same animated film. they walked out having and impacted deeply. movies that impact us and unite us. they are not just well-known actors and directors, sidney

poitier, tom hanks, and others, they are the collaboration of thousands of people. those collaborations generate more than social and cultural dividends, but economic ones as well. movies create jobs and many of them over the united states and elsewhere. 99% of the movie production workforce are men and women of who i speak today, they install the light in this room, wire the

microphone that i'm speaking from and prepare our lunch for us today. we are all guilty of viewing things from the wrong end of the lens. for every talented and recognizable face, there are literally tens of thousands of working people off screen who helped to create the magic in the movie theater. every workday, more than 2.1 million of our fellow citizens go to work at a job that directly or indirectly depends on the movie and television business. these jobs involve producing marketing manufacturing and distributing movies and tv shows the film industry doesn't this create jobs but careers. many of these careers not

require a college degree or advanced education. a high school diploma and several years of technical training, a good living can be earned, one that pays on average around $62,000 per year. let me tell you something else that may surprise you. when you look at all those jobs that hollywood has created, avoid the temptation to aim your telescope west towards los angeles or east towards new york. aim it everywhere in this country. the direction of every state in this nation. the motion picture industry creates this in all 50 states, including georgia and north carolina and new york, among others in small communities. like louisiana and 100 movies and 90 series were filmed in louisiana. these production projects paid

out nearly $400 million in labor. in 2011, 10 movies were filmed in pennsylvania, including silver linings playbook, generating 16,000 jobs and paying nearly three quarters of a billion dollars in wages. oscar-nominated "lincoln" was filmed in virginia. creating 14,000 jobs with other films, and $640 million in wages. you can go down the last one list one after the other across this nation. you can find one economic success story after another. as a result of a film or television program produced in that jurisdiction. the true impact of this american industry is realized far beyond the 50 states. movies matter on a global scale as well.

it is our movies and i would add television as well that brand america in the eyes of the world. right now at this very moment, somewhere around the world, a young man or woman or a family is starting an exit is to america. deciding to begin a new life in our country. there are many reasons why they make that journey or decision and they have over the past six or seven decades. to escape oppression, make a better life for themselves, chased their wildest dreams, unimaginable. i would wager that one of the reasons is because that man and woman or family had seen american films, which convinced them that this country could be to them the land of unlimited possibility. this is just as true today as it was more than a century ago. the motion picture industry began to flourish, not coincidentally, but at the hands of immigrants who came from central and eastern europe to

our nation. it was a great year for the film industry last year. cinemas, movies, many reached box office receipts outside of the united states and canada, weighing in at $23.1 billion. from singapore to berlin, almost every market in the world, american films and american movies, audiences want to see them. they solidify the industry standard is one of the premier american industries in the world. in 2011, the film and television industry had $14.2 billion in exports. an incredible seven to one export to import ratio. no other major american industry has a balance of trade is

positive as every nation on the globe in which it does business as the american film industry. business is growing dramatically, especially in china. which is an international draw of 2012. about 2.75 billion. every single day in china, 10 new movie screens are built and open up in the country. everyday with imax theaters, 3-d theaters, opening the market to more people in our country. all of these added up to the american movie industry. both here and abroad, the final analysis, the industry is successful because it represents

an extraordinary value to consumers the world over. two weeks ago, i was in los angeles or the 65th annual directors guild of america awards. one of the preaward defense was the five directors who were nominated of the directors guild as best director award. on a panel with steven spielberg, life of pi directly -- director and the director of les miserables i realize that this industry is like none other on the planet. every movie is handcrafted and unique. ev